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Michael.

First, I kind of think this belongs in the off topic section, not in the guitar building section.

To the point at hand.
I think this is something that happens in life in general, not just on an internet forum. It's human nature to interject our own experiences and even change the topic. This is something that happens allot in my own extended family and having "get togethers" with them can be taxing.

I think that it is rude to change the subject of a topic with out permission, but I don't have any problem with someone asking more questions in "someone else's" post if it's regarding the original topic. It is up to the person who posted the original question to state whether he/she is ticked about the hijacking. We all just need to be adults about it and take our reprimanding if we do hijack someone else's post.

The reason is wrote like this "someone else's post" is that there seems to be a perception with a topic started by someone to be owned by them. I think that in a public forum, if you post a question, comment etc... you've invited the masses to comment, respond etc... however they see fit regarding the original post, it's sort of the "owners" responsibility to keep it on track or "police" the topic if that is important to them.

Further, this does have the possibility to open up an ugly can of worms and I think that we should be careful and cautious of this topic.Rod True39054.5093171296

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"There's really no wrong way, as long as the results are what's desired." Charles Fox

"We have to constantly remind ourselves what we're doing....No Luthier is putting a man on the moon!" Harry Fleishman

"Generosity is always different in the eye of the person who didn't receive anything, but who wanted some." Waddy Thomson

I agree that being frank and respectfull is key to any communication. And I agree that it is very possible for people to disagree with one another and get along, just warning to be carefull is all.

Gee, I somehow whated to say I disagree in here somewhere but that didn't work out

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"There's really no wrong way, as long as the results are what's desired." Charles Fox

"We have to constantly remind ourselves what we're doing....No Luthier is putting a man on the moon!" Harry Fleishman

"Generosity is always different in the eye of the person who didn't receive anything, but who wanted some." Waddy Thomson

Personally, I welcome when others post their personal experience about a question or report that I start. If my original question isn't adequately addressed, I usually ask again in a differrent manner. It's no big deal to me.

Having said that, I would hope that any poster who becomes irritated by the progress of his particular thread can diplomatically state his objection and nudge his brethern to get back on the intended track.

Also, if I have done this to any post, I hope that folks feel comfortable by letting me know of my unintended offense. It's no big deal...we should have thick skins and be able to take constructive criticism.

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JJ
Napa, CA
http://www.DonohueGuitars.com

Michael,

I think it is sometimes irratating to the original poster to see his/her threat drift off in another direction before the subject matter has been completely explored. But....

Rod is right, it is human nature. Ever moderate a meeting of say ten or more people? During the discusion you will always need to nudge them back onto the topic from time to time.

Since it is human nature it would be difficult to prevent. As a reader I find the redirected threat typically sheds new light on the bottom line discussion at hand, building guitars. From my perspective it is all good. If the original poster still has questions he needs to moderate the threat with a little nudge back on track. Joe Beaver39054.6034606481

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Joe Beaver
Maker of Sawdust

I think it depends on the direction it drifts. If it's still related to building instruments - great. But if for example it's to post a photoshopped pic, and then the thread drifts to become a yuk-fest, I think it detracts from the forum.

I think the problem is more related to the forum software. If you are following using "Active Topics" all responses (on topic and hijack) are lumped together. If you using the "Main Discussion", the threads will show branches that you can either choose to follow or not (assuming the poster replied to a specific post). If I remember correctly, when the OLF updated from Lance's original software in December 2004, it was decided that it was desirable to keep the branching architecture and free flowing discussions.   Don A39054.7528472222

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Don Atwood
Arlington, VA

I agree with BruceH. As long as the person gets their question answered or the thread has served its purpose then the thread being hijacked just contributes to the knowledge base.

I think Don Atwood has a rgeat point there too. It may be annoying if not using the "Main Discussion" area.

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I agree. Anyone see the Patriots barely eek out a win over Lance's Lions?



DON'T reply to my obnoxious humor, please...

Michael, I see your point. It is however a natural part of conversation in the real world. It's pretty hard to entirely avoid. It just happens.

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Only badly."

How about all those field goals the raiders keep missing?? GO TEXANS!!

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Speaking of Hijacking
How about my Chargers!!!!!!!

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Andy Z.
http://www.lazydogguitars.com

... come on guys. I think Michael brings up a very valid point.

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Brock Poling
Columbus, Ohio
http://www.polingguitars.com

I also think it is just human nature for the subject of a conversation to drift off to other realms, even if it`s not intended.
What I personally find irritating is that it makes it pretty tough when I go digging through the archives for a particular tidbit of info and can`t locate it because the subject had been added to a post, or the subject had changed significantly.
After all, there isn`t a restriction that says we can`t start another thread.
Just my 2 cents.
Coe

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Give me 50 cents worth of regular.
Check my oil too, if you don`t mind,,,

Nice Michael......

The difference between this forum and many others is that it certainly has a family dynamic that you just don't find. Even on the other guitar building forums.

Why this is, I don't know but this certainly attributes to about 60% of the reason I stay here. It's not for everyone as we have seen, but it sure is for me.

Remember, you can't pick your family, but if I could there are definitely people here who I would have chosen. Now, you can pick your friends and I'm glad to say that there are good friends here, regardless of the fact that I've only met a few members here (hope to reconcile that)

I like the family dynamic, and like my own family, it can and does get off track at times. I can always leave this family if I so choose, but it's really the "realness" of the people here that makes this community so great. And to boot, there are a lot of very very knowledgeable guitar builders and repair person's here.

What a bonus.

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"There's really no wrong way, as long as the results are what's desired." Charles Fox

"We have to constantly remind ourselves what we're doing....No Luthier is putting a man on the moon!" Harry Fleishman

"Generosity is always different in the eye of the person who didn't receive anything, but who wanted some." Waddy Thomson

[QUOTE=Rod True]
<snip>... And to boot, there are a lot of very very knowledgeable guitar builders and repair person's here.
[/QUOTE]

Yes, but not as many as there used to be, and making them wade through a bunch of crap doesn't make it any easier for them to share their knowledge.

Using you family analogy, I see it like a family get together where some members want to sit around and have a serious conversation while others want to cut up and play. Nothing wrong with either choice, but if you want to wrestle and throw your football, don't do it in the dining room while we're having a serious conversation: take it outside instead. IMO, that's why there is an off-topic forum here. Play there; work here.

[QUOTE=BruceH] Yes, but not as many as there used to be, and making them wade through a bunch of crap doesn't make it any easier for them to share their knowledge.[/QUOTE]

It's generally never about the teacher, or it shouldn't be. The best teacher's I've ever had, had a vested interest in who I am, not just the topic at hand. Anyone can teach something they have knowledge about, but not everyone can be a mentor and become part of the students life to the point where you're always teaching, it just doesn't look like it all the time.

This is really the difference between a good teacher and a great one. A good teacher can teach in a variety of environments, often will get frustrated and desire a change only to find that they get the same thing at the next school.
A great teacher will get involved with the students and come down so to say to their level where real learning can happen. It's a great teacher who can teach down at the students level where they (the student) will not only learn the "craft" or topic at hand, but will also become a better person because of the open environment and the willingness of the teacher to wade through the crap to become more than just a teacher, but a friend as well. Wisdom is always passed down from those who are great and in my eyes, great people/teacher's have learned how to be patient in the horse play simply because they love to share and teach and they are passionate enough and patient enough to let the horse play happen. Because they (the teacher) are willing to engage in the "off topic" conversation to get to the root of the subject, I see that teacher as great and would most likly follow them where ever they lead.

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"There's really no wrong way, as long as the results are what's desired." Charles Fox

"We have to constantly remind ourselves what we're doing....No Luthier is putting a man on the moon!" Harry Fleishman

"Generosity is always different in the eye of the person who didn't receive anything, but who wanted some." Waddy Thomson

Rod,

I'm a teacher and I agree that relationship building is extremely important. But a great teacher also demonstrates that there is a time and a place for everything.

I think that where we disagree is the ratio to horseplay to on-task behavior. I know that in a recent thread I started the horseplay ran about 50% of the thread and included a photo. I don't know if you have kids or not, but I doubt that you would like a teacher to spend half of the class time goofing around and building relationships. If nothing else, think of that poor schmuck on dial-up that has to wait while a thread loads.

That's why we have the off-topic section of the forum; that's the place for extended joking around. Back to the teaching example, it's like my yo-yo club at school. I use a yo-yo in science demonstrations and then usually several of my students want to learn tricks. On my own time I collect money, make an order, and then teach them tricks during lunch and recess. I build relationships and reach kids that otherwise couldn't care less about school - but we don't take half of my science class to do it.

Your turn.

Bruce

I've been a science teacher, too, for 38 years. Some levity in the classroom is a very good thing, in my opinion.     Here, if you don't like where a topic is going, you have the option of not clicking on it again.

My observation is this: If all you want is dry presentation of information, buy a book. There are about 40 or 50 guys here that I feel are VERY good friends, and I love to hear their comments, on or off topic. I don't just frequent this place for information, I come to visit with luthiers from all over the planet

Ron

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OLD MAN formerly (and formally) known as:

Ron Wisdom

Somewhere in the middle of Arkansas......

Bruce, you would have to be a teacher and I use that analogy . Actually someone I always learn a ton from in life is a good friend who is also a teacher, I highly respect those who are teachers who have passion for what they teach and the kids that they teach to. Good on ya.

I do agree with you that 50% would be to much horse play especially in school, but I would think the 10% would be beneficial and 50% humor if on topic would help with teaching too.

The key to everything in life of course is balance. And having balance and learning balance is something that we all can probably use more of.

I guess the real key here at the OLF is for the poster of the topic to police it. There was a good example of this awhile ago where Howard Klepper (Sp?) asked about some guitar cases, it went a little bit off the rails and he brought it back cause this was very important to him and he was not willing to let it get of track. That was great self policing he did, it should probably happen more, Live too and not PM'd.

Anyway, I think we agree that there is benefit's to some horseplay and such, but staying on topic is also very important in learning.

Thanks for the fun. I love learning because it's like my Grandpa use to say, "It's what you learn after you know it all that counts"

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"There's really no wrong way, as long as the results are what's desired." Charles Fox

"We have to constantly remind ourselves what we're doing....No Luthier is putting a man on the moon!" Harry Fleishman

"Generosity is always different in the eye of the person who didn't receive anything, but who wanted some." Waddy Thomson

[QUOTE=old man] I've been a science teacher, too, for 38 years. Some levity in the classroom is a very good thing, in my opinion.     Here, if you don't like where a topic is going, you have the option of not clicking on it again.

My observation is this: If all you want is dry presentation of information, buy a book. There are about 40 or 50 guys here that I feel are VERY good friends, and I love to hear their comments, on or off topic. I don't just frequent this place for information, I come to visit with luthiers from all over the planet

Ron [/QUOTE]

I have to agree with you Ron and also with those who look for dry information because, we got it all here, the best of both worlds, science and family. dry info with those who teach that way best and warm info for those who come here for that and friends or bros and sisters.

I can live with those who prefer the serious discussions and respect their way of life if that's how they see life, in return, i'm seriously hoping that they can return the favor by respecting the person that i am who loves to be warm and funny and STILL learn and be serious at times but not all the time and put an emoticon or twelve if i may please because it is how i express myself best, by not taking myself too seriously because i want this adventure to be fun and exciting and to remind me that mistakes will occur and that my sense of humor better be intact then...

If you can't respect those who see different from you, please, try not to make what the OLF isn't ie an unwelcoming and unbalanced place because it would be the end of it, Ron said it best, we always have the choice to look in another thread for more serious people.

Best regards

Serge

I have two comments. First, with regard to hijacking a thread to a guitar-related but different subject, it makes the archives less helpful since if you are searching by topic, alot is not found. The mimf (which has its own issues) is very good about keeping different subjects separate.

Second, while there is no reason for all topics to be sterile and devoid of humor, there have been several topics lately that have veered totally off into inanity. For myself, once it goes in that direction, it stops me from going back to look at the topic again to see if the thread has returned to the original subject since I don't want to waste my time.

Just my two cents worth.